On February 24, a New York City jury delivered its long-awaited verdict: disgraced former media mogul Harvey Weinstein was found guilty (open in new tab) of two felony sex crimes. The convictions were applauded across the country as finally holding #MeToo's most notorious criminal (open in new tab) accountable and bringing justice to plaintiffs Miriam Haley and Jessica Mann (and countless other survivors).

Following the initial coverage of the case against Weinstein, Time's Up was organized by over 300 women in the entertainment industry (open in new tab) In October 2019, Tina Chen was named CEO of Time's Up. In her first magazine interview since the Weinstein verdict, Cheng discusses how the trial will shape the future of the movement that has swept the nation.

Marie Claire Harvey Weinstein was convicted on two of the five charges (first-degree sexual misconduct and third-degree rape) and acquitted on the others, including first-degree rape and predatory sexual assault. What was your reaction upon hearing the verdict?

Tina Chen Rape is always a difficult charge to prove; according to RAINN (open in new tab), 995 of the 1,000 perpetrators have been released. Usually, perpetrators are never even prosecuted, let alone brought to trial, and their convictions are never confirmed. Despite all the representations the defense tried to throw out about continuing to contact the assailant after the assault (as in Jessica Mann's case), the fact that Weinstein was convicted in the case of (two) victims is a major victory.

MC: How did you feel when the jury announced that they had reached a verdict?

TT: We had been preparing for this for some time. Our North Star has always been to support the #SilenceBreakers and the other survivors who were there to hear the trial. For thousands of women across the country, it was deeply personal.

But we were worried. We were anxious about what the outcome would be, given what usually happens in such cases. I must say that we were delighted when the jury returned a guilty verdict. It marks an important change in how we expect these cases to be handled in the future. I know that District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr. has stated that the #MeToo and Time's Up movements have evolved his thinking on how these (charges) should be handled. Now he has succeeded in prosecuting this case.

MC: How do you think this trial will change the judicial process in cases that have historically been hard-tried?

TT: I think it will change it. I commend the district attorney for showing that it is possible to win a case in a situation where the survivor has an ongoing relationship with the perpetrator. There is a notion that unless the assailant is a complete stranger, for example, if you are assaulted by a stranger on the street, it is not sexual assault. In reality, the overwhelming majority of survivors of sexual assault know their assailant. Of course, they have ongoing contact with them after the assault occurred. That should not mean that the fact that a crime has occurred should be downplayed. [At that trial, model Ambra Battillana Gutierrez, who accused Weinstein of groping her in 2015, is scheduled to testify, but prosecutor Vance did not charge him at that time. Do you think it would have played out differently today?

TT: I think so. I hope that people have a better understanding of what sexual harassment and abuse of power looks like. I think that is changing and is in the process of changing.

MC: A lot has changed in five years, but a lot still needs to change.

TT: These are deeply ingrained gender norms. These norms go back thousands, if not decades, and are literally written in the Bible. It transcends race, culture, religion, geography, and time. But I believe that from time to time there are moments of transformation. It happens quickly and deeply. I believe we are in such a moment right now.

We are doing very large scale work that will take years. If we want to prevent sexual harassment and sexual assault from occurring, it's not enough to deal with the after-the-fact: we need to address what happens every day: unequal pay, lack of paid leave, promotion practices, and unconscious bias that devalues women, LGBTQ and workers of color. The goal is to create a fully inclusive, respectful, and diverse workplace where everyone feels safe.

MC: Do you feel that the coverage of the trial has positively impacted the conversation around #MeToo?

TT: I feel it has. One of the things we did at Time's Up was to work with experts who could talk about things like contacting a perpetrator after an assault, and to get those experts out to the media so that reporters could fully understand those topics. We really appreciate those experts and the media who took the time to help us understand in depth what was going on in the courtroom.

MC: Some people claim that #MeToo is a "media circus." What is your response?

TT: I'm trying to figure out the appropriate wording for print. There are those who are intimidated (by these conversations). We need to continue to resist that with information. This begins with the courage of survivors who come forward about what happened to them, not only in the Weinstein case, but also in the Bill Cosby case, the Russell Simmons case, and the Donald Trump case. It is the courage of hotel workers, cooks, and farm workers. In the McDonald's case (opens in new tab), a teenage plaintiff tells her story of what happened to her. This is not a media circus; it is the truth of the people. What we face may be uncomfortable, but if we are going to change, we must do better. To be better.

MC: How will the Weinstein verdict change Times Up in the future?

TT: The important thing about this verdict is that it recognizes the courage of those who broke their silence. It should also send a message to prosecutors, police officers, employers, and investigators. Yes, the survivor may have sent emails (to the perpetrator) or had follow-up meetings, but that does not mean that the crime did not occur. This particular ruling is very important in sending that message to both survivors and those who prosecute.

MC: How have the goals of Time's Up changed since its inception?

TT: Our mission has always been to help survivors, but also to make sure [harassment and assault] doesn't happen. We are there now. We need to holistically address the barriers that are preventing us from creating a diverse, inclusive, safe, and respectful workplace. That means the challenge is broader: we are talking about equal pay, paid leave, fair promotion practices, diversity and inclusion practices from the C-suite to the shop floor.

MC: How do initiatives like the Times Up Impact Lab (opens in new tab) help to address underlying issues?

TT: What we have learned is that until people come forward to break the silence, we will not know the full extent of the problem. You can't solve a problem you can't see. We have no research. We have no data to tell us what works. That is why I have high hopes for the Impact Lab. Because we can finally build the data, evidence, and new tools to help companies and employers build better workplaces.

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